Interviewee: Marta (This is a pseudonym used for protection of the interviewee’s identity). Interviewer: Martin Mowforth Location: San Martín, El Salvador Date: 19 January 2019 Themes: Interview with Marta about her experience as a migrant on one of the migrant caravans from El Salvador heading for the United States during 2018. Interview conducted in a car surrounded by much traffic noise.
Key words: migration; human caravan; ‘coyotes’/traffickers; gangs.
Marta: Where do you want me to start?
Martin: From your departure from El Salvador, on the first caravan.
Marta: I went on the first caravan where there were a lot of Hondurans. I left from here in El Salvador on Friday 20th October  and I arrived on Sunday [uncertain date] at 2 in the morning where we were crossing the Río Hietucumbando [?]. I was incorporated into the throng in the Ciudad Hidalgo Park where there were all the people from a caravan who still hadn’t made it. I was with my grandson and a neighbour who had also come with me, and we were waiting for them to get up at 4 in the morning. They got up at 3:30 in the morning and we began to walk to get to Tapachula.
Our aim was to make it along the whole road and I’m not sure if it’s about 38 or 40 kilometres from Ciudad Hidalgo to Tapachula; but we arrived at 6 pm, or around 5:30 pm at Tapachula. That was the first section that we walked in the journey. There were masses of people, going carefully because there were migration patrols and police too.
Martin: Were there coyotes as well?
Marta: Well the coyotes I found out when we were there … Yes, I did a lot to get to Guadalajara. We were there for two days and I saw this man who seemed suspicious to me, and we began to talk.
“What do you do,” I asked.
“Right now there are many coyotes with your people. Because I know that with the same situation of the caravan they couldn’t pass themselves off as mere people.” And then, “Yes, I’m one of them,” he told me. “I brought eight people here.”
“Really? And it was no problem?”
I said to him, “Because you’re charging a fee to get these people and to bring them here. And México is giving them food, and you bring them here.”
“Yes, but only to get them to this point. There’s a zone where they won’t let them pass, where they have to pay; and I fear that they’ll get rid of me too.”
I don’t know, perhaps it’s the narcos, I don’t know. He didn’t explain it to me very well. “They won’t let you pass through this zone and you could be kidnapped. So here I’m going to be with you and everything is relaxed, and I’m here to go with you if you want to go onto another state.”
When we got to México City, I saw him twice, but I never got to know the people that he brought. I saw him because he’s from here, a Salvadoran, and I had seen him in México.
Martin: And what did you do in Tijuana?
Marta: In Tijuana?
Marta: Well, when we reached México City, they sent us to Tijuana. There they received us in the Benito Juárez Auditorium. There they told us where we were, all of arrived, and they put us up. Well, in my case, I didn’t go in because I was carrying a child, and I hadn’t registered in the caravan. I always tried to avoid it whenever they were passing lists around. Because I didn’t want him to be recorded as being on the caravan to the United States; firstly because I didn’t take him with me because I wanted to, rather because the pandillas (gangs) wanted him to join them. Because he was a child of 15 years old, so here in El Salvador when they become young adolescents, young men, they are obliged to join the gangs; and I was fearful of that. I’d already told his mum and she told me, “look, mum, you’ve got the have a chance to join the caravan.” And thank God it happened and I brought him with me; I felt that I was saving his life because if he got roped into the gangs he would have only three options: prison, hospital or the cemetery. So, I brought him with me, thank God.
From the time when we began to enter México, as we were arriving in the streets there were lorries with water, fruit, food. And where we got to sleep there were medics who spent the whole night with us. For me it was a good experience and I thank God because at least we didn’t suffer like others had done.
We didn’t know if on an event like this – I went on the caravan – I didn’t know if we were going to be able to eat or if there would be nothing to eat, where to sleep, or if anyone would give me water. You go ready for everything.
Also on the caravan you have two aims: one is to incorporate yourself into the caravan and to get through México without problems. There are organisers who talk with the authorities so that they allow safe passage, to go and not to have to spend anything, thank God. The other is the final point at whichever frontier. In our case we got to Tijuana and there, as we say in our country, “Snub, snub, each to their own house.” So, once there, there were those who had relatives who came to collect them, others who stayed there waiting for documents, and others who wanted to enter the United States. And my aim was to get there to Tijuana, and to find out how this child could enter the United States, and with God’s help my daughter also had contacts there, and so I managed to deliver him into the hands of some lawyers who had a house in Tijuana. We went there and I managed to leave him and he was there for fifteen days. Afterwards he had the bad luck, on the day that I came back to El Salvador, and when he was to get into the United States, the Mexican migration got him and he spent five days in jail at the frontier. But the same lawyers were able to get him out. But he was there for another 15 days because by chance a congressional representative arrived – he was a friend of a reporter who was a friend of my daughter, of the boy’s mother. So she told him, “look, you’re going to México to see the emigrants, aren’t you? I’m not going to go because I’m going to Casa Venta; so you go and bring Vladimir back to me,” she said (because Vladimir is Veronica’s son). It’s a case where they see the caravan and all of a sudden he says to me “they’re going to interview me mum.” And I was interviewed a lot too by reporters who came from Los Angeles to Tijuana. And that’s how it was with the congressional representative who came and got him through, passing by migration. So he’s in Florida hoping that one day I’ll take a plane and he’ll say I’ve left.
I’m still not completely happy; I wanted to see my son who also left because he’s still in immigration. But I have faith in God that our walk and the sacrifice, the effort that we made – because we put up with storms, we got exhausted, we slept in the street, but …..
Martin: And how did you get back?
Marta: I came back when I’d already delivered the child and I said to my daughter “Daughter, I have nothing more to do here; the child is in the hands of the authorities who will look after him, who will deliver him to the North American immigration authorities. I’m going back to my country. So I bought a direct ticket, from Tijuana to Tapachula; from Tapachula to Guatemala; and from Guatemala to El Salvador. And that’s how I’m here, thanking God.
Martin: By bus?
Marta: By bus. What a journey in the caravan and nobody is going to say I’m lying. I know that’s how it was. Also I know that’s a good caravan.
Martin: An adventure.
Marta: Certainly an adventure.
Martin: But do you want to do it again, or not? To try it another time?
Marta: Well I would say if in the case for example, I have two grandchildren and they said to me that they have problems and wanted to join a caravan, yes, I would do it again. Because a mother tries to help her sons in whatever way is possible for her. And I saw that whilst you go with God in the caravan, I always put myself as near as possible to the organisers and close to the reporters and the authorities – it’s always best to be near them. And I used to get upon the trucks which migration had sent to give us rides. One lorry I didn’t get up on was one that lost a lot of people – sadly they lost 100 people – we didn’t notice because we were many thousands of people. There were rumours, but I didn’t see them and so I’m not going to say that it’s certain, but I did hear the rumours. They told us that they wanted to steal children too, there were rumours, but again I didn’t see it so I’m not going to talk about it. There was an accusation that some people were stealing children in the night, but I can’t be certain because I didn’t see it. There were loads of people. But thank God, everything worked out OK for me.
Martin: Many thanks and good luck in the future.
Marta: Yes, like I said, I’m an adventurous woman.
Interviewee: Manuel Zelaya Interviewer: Anya Parampil Date: 20 October 2019 Theme: In the interview Manuel Zelaya discusses the extreme violence, drug trafficking, economic depression, migration crisis, Juan Orlando Hernández (JOH), WikiLeaks, Venezuela, and more.
In August 2019 The Grayzone’s Anya Parampil held an exclusive interview with Honduran President Manuel Zelaya, on the 10th anniversary of the US-backed right-wing military coup that overthrew him. We are grateful to Max Blumenthal of The Grayzone for permission to reproduce the interview in The Violence of Development website.
Grayzone is an independent
news website dedicated to original investigative journalism and analysis on
politics and empire. It was founded and is edited by award-winning journalist
and author Max
AP is a journalist based in
Washington, DC. She previously hosted a daily progressive afternoon news
program called In Question on RT America. She has produced and reported several
documentaries, including on-the-ground reports from the Korean peninsula and
Anya Parampil (AP): Thank you for your time, Mr. President. It
has been 10 years since you were removed in a US-backed coup from your position
as the democratically elected president of Honduras. What has the United States
accomplished since then, what has changed in your country?
Manuel Zelaya (MZ): The rupture of a social contract, which we call the
constitution of the republic, in the constitution of the state, when a social
contract is broken, what logically comes next is the law of the stronger
(survival of the fittest). Crimes, killings, torture. Always the winning side
against the opposition.
has been a sacrifice for the Honduran people, because the side that took power
had the support of the United States. The US is the major beneficiary of the
coup. And there is a principle in penal law that says the beneficiary of a
crime is the principal suspect.
has it been the beneficiary? The US has almost complete control over Honduras.
Control over justice through the OAS (Organisation of American States). It
controls security through US Southern Command. It controls the economy through
the International Monetary Fund (IMF), World Bank, and IDB (Inter-American
controls the main media networks in Honduras; it has a big influence over the
opinion of the main media outlets. It funds many churches, which receive
donations from North American NGOs. And it finances Honduran NGOs. That is, it
controls public opinion. It controls the powers of the state.
in this way, it has a high interference in the decisions of states like
Honduras, poor states, weak states, where their rulers, to receive protection,
give up everything to the North Americans.
AP: What has been
the impact on the average Hondurans throughout these years?
increased. There are more poor people. The poverty level already surpasses
almost 70 percent of the population. Crime increased. Drug-trafficking
increased. According to a report from the US State Department, drug trafficking
in Honduras after the coup increased by almost double. And the report says that
Honduras became “the drug-trafficking paradise.”
debt increased. When they took me out at gunpoint, we owed $3 billion. Today,
in 10 years, we owe $14 billion. That is four times more. So this means the
country has serious problems with a lack of economic growth, a lack of
investment, human rights violations.
I will present you with only one piece of proof: The [migrant] caravans heading
to the US are from Honduras. Because the [US-backed] coup d’etat turned
Honduras into hell.
AP: How has this
situation, what has happened over the last 10 years, contributed to the
development of your party, Libre?
MZ: We are a
party of opposition to the coup d’etat. And for 10 years those who carried out
the coup have governed. They are the spawn of the coup. And the more errors
they commit, the more they oppress, the more the opposition grows.
AP: And this has
led to the strengthening of the social movements here?
MZ: Well, social
movements don’t grow for a sectarian political reason; they grow because
electricity was privatized and they can’t pay for light. Many social services
have been privatized. They have been given to private companies. And the
problem is not just that they leave it to private enterprise. Private
enterprise is efficient, but it’s expensive.
most comfortable thing for a ruler is to say, “Security will be managed for me
by US Southern Command.” “The economy will be managed for me by the IMF.” “The
soldiers will manage internal security for me.” “And private enterprise will
manage the money for me.” So, what does the ruler do? Nothing. Simply give
benefits to his followers.
AP: Who is Juan
Orlando Hernandez (JOH) and why are we seeing now, 10 years after the coup, a
re-ignition of unrest in the streets and a demand that JOH leave office?
MZ: He (JOH) is a
son of the coup. He has serious personality problems. For example, I was
president. And I walked in the streets. And people greeted me. And they told
me, “Hi Mel! Hi President!” He (JOH) travels with armoured cars, with helicopters.
He travels with a huge security team.
my opinion, he has a problem with mental illness. He believes that being
president is a big deal. And the pastors come and tell him he is chosen by God.
So it becomes even worse. And he begins to act like a person who is not in
touch with reality.
people are protesting because of hunger. And he thinks they’re protesting
because of politics. And he tells to the United States a speech that the US,
its right-wing, conservative governing class wants to hear. He says, “In
Honduras there is terrorism. [Venezuelan President Hugo] Chávez’s people are
there in Honduras. And they are affecting me, the drug traffickers.”
think he is suffering from psychopathy.
AP: And what
about the accusations of corruption? Some Hondurans I spoke to today told me how
JOH is one of the richest men in the region.
corruption is public. They broke the social security system. Look, how do you
sustain an illegal government? Paying people off. If they are legal, they don’t
need to pay. Because they are the product of a social pact.
when there is a coup d’etat, there is fraud. So they need to corrupt the
institutions to sustain themselves. The fact that the United States supports a
coup d’etat makes them support a dictator. And that is why corruption is
surging. The corruption is the result of the dictatorship.
have also told me that a small group of families control much of the country in
terms of industry and specifically the media. Can you talk about the media’s
role in the coup and also in sustaining the dictatorship, which you describe?
MZ: That is how
capitalism works. In the US, France, anywhere. Capitalism is based on just one
principle: accumulation of wealth. That is how it functions here and in the
rest of the world.
small elite of transnational [corporations] associated with people in countries
who clean up for them. They do business, and that business creates the need to
set up security for themselves.
don’t tolerate competition. I brought in oil from Venezuela, with Hugo Chávez,
and they insisted that they had to maintain their agreements. And they did not
accept Venezuela. And that was one of the motives behind the coup.
AP: And I believe
the US ambassador at the time, Charles Ford, told you you’re not allowed to do
this, as though he had the right to do this as a foreign ambassador.
MZ: The US gives
advice that if you don’t follow, they act with reprisals. US President George
W. Bush told it to me. John Negroponte told it to me. Ambassador Ford told it
to me. And other government officials.
said it to me in these words: “You cannot have relations with Hugo Chávez.”
John Negroponte, his deputy secretary of state, told me, “If you sign the ALBA
(Bolivarian Alliance), you are going to have problems with the US.”
I signed the ALBA. And I would sign it again if I had the chance. Because it is
to help Honduras progress.
needed the support from Brazil, the support from Venezuela, the support from
the US, the support from Europe. We are not able to depend solely on the US,
because the US has its own interests. It’s another nation.
AP: I would like
you to comment on the significance of Wikileaks in the history of your country
but also the region, and what you think about what is currently happening to
Julian Assange with the with the help of the government in Ecuador?
Assange is a symbol of freedom in the world today, tomorrow, and forever. He
will be one of the people, in the future, like one of the great prophets. In
their day, they are repressed. And later they become a symbol. That’s what
Julian Assange will become.
Assange proclaimed a world without secrets, an open world, a free world. Of
course he affects the [powerful] interests of today. But in the future, I, and
others in other generations, will follow the example of Assange.
AP: We were
speaking about Ambassador Ford, I believe after he finished his work in the
embassy here he went to work for SOUTHCOM, the military. Can you talk about how
central the interests of the US military are to what happened with you and how
its presence in the country has grown since you were ousted?
MZ: [Honduran] soldiers
are trained at the [US] School of the Americas. All of their drills they do
with the US. For the soldiers, the ideal of their life is to be like the US
Marines, like US soldiers.
here, the US controls the armed forces and the police. They do what the US
wants them to do. They are occupation forces.
AP: I want to
talk a little bit about the region, specifically Nicaragua. What do you think
about the US-backed coup attempt he (Daniel Ortega) has faced over this last
year? This month, I believe, is the one year anniversary since the government
there defeated a US backed regime change operation.
MZ: When I
returned [after the coup], I made several attempts to return to Honduras. In
the return from Washington to Honduras, I was not able to land, because the
military blocked me. So I had to come back through the Las Manos border
crossing in Nicaragua. Then I secretly entered the Brazilian embassy. Two years
later I returned from the Dominican Republic, from the Dominican Republic to
Nicaragua, and from Nicaragua to Honduras.
relation to the US trying to overthrow [Nicaraguan President] Daniel Ortega, I
believe it already did it before, in the 1980s. The US armed Contras here in
Honduras to fight against Nicaraguans. Since that time, I have always protested
against this US occupation of Honduras to invade Nicaragua. And the people
voted for the Ortega government. He was elected.
the US has been unable to overthrow him. Now, he is strong. Now Ortega has a
lot of popular support. And I don’t think they are able to overthrow him, as
they did in the past, from Honduras.
AP: Can you
compare your party, Libre, to the Sandinista Movement and what lessons you took
MZ: They are two
different historical moments. Sandinismo was developed by a military sergeant,
who went to the mountains at the beginning of the 20th century, and he created
an anti-imperialist force that created a party called the Sandinista Front for
National Liberation (FSLN). This party won a war, overthrew the Somoza
dictatorship, and now organises democratically to stay in power.
(in Honduras’ Libre Party) are a party that did not come out of the armed
struggle. We did not come out of a war. We were born out of a movement that is
revolutionary and democratic, but peaceful. Against the coup d’etat. And
against those who support the coup. The US supported the coup.
AP: I want to
talk about your personal political development because when you were elected
you were considered part of a more centre-left party and movement, and now you
are speaking about socialism. Why did you change and how would you characterize
actually. (Not centre-left.) It has been an evolution. Because the right wing
is done for. It sustains itself with weapons, with coups, with fraud, with
future of humanity has to be social. You are a social being. You. Aristotle
says that we are rational beings. The human is a rational animal. But we think
that the human being, today, is a totally social being. Without society, men
and women can’t survive. Everything that we think and perceive is related to
our social environment.
where should humanity walk to? To individualism, to egoism? To individual
interests, or social interests? It’s to social interests.
future of humanity is socialist. We might have to struggle for 10,000 years or
more. But in the future, if humanity does not advance to be social, we would be
living in caves, according to the survival of the fittest. Human beings are
advancing, progressing to become social.
was raised in a liberal political philosophy. But now I evolved to a new
politics: first liberal and pro-socialist, but now democratic socialist.
AP: How were you
influenced by other governments of the Pink Tide, specifically Hugo Chavez of
MZ: Well you
would have to ask how Chávez, a soldier, became a socialist. If you find this
explanation, then you will find an explanation for how I, a land-owner, went
from being a capitalist to a socialist. It is a heightening of the spirit. It
is the conviction of a human being.
is so barbaric. It is not the future of humanity. If capitalism is the future
of humanity, humanity is destroyed. It is defeated. It is doomed to fail. The
same for the planet.
future of humanity has to be social. It’s simple. It’s not money. It’s not
commerce. It’s not simply economic activities that should lead humanity. No,
those should be subject to the social.
fine that private enterprise exists, private initiative. It’s fine that capital
exists. But it is not ok for capital to direct the world. No, it is the world
that should direct capital. This is an upside-down world.
when you reach the highest governmental position in a country, which I reached,
even in a small nation like Honduras, I learned then that there is no way to
deal with capital other than subjecting it to popular sovereignty. Capital
should continue to exist, but subjected to a plan of popular sovereignty that
is the people.
voice of the people is the voice of God. You have to have faith.
AP: Like Chávez,
you were pursuing the process of a Constituent Assembly in your country the day
of the coup, to change the character of the state here. Why do you think that
specifically was so threatening to the oligarchy here and the US government?
MZ: The question
is not well formulated. Do you know who Thomas Jefferson is? Do you know who
George Washington is? They created the United States, with a constitution.
mention Chávez? Chávez is simply from the 21st century. Jefferson and
Washington were from 1776. The American Revolution was anti-imperialist,
against the British Empire. They developed a constitutional assembly. And you
have your constitution in the US. It’s not Chávez who invented the constituent
assembly; it’s Jefferson and Washington. So why be afraid of the way in which
nations are formed?
the social pact is broken, because there is a lot of poverty, there is a lot of
hunger, many people in need, and the majority does not resist the economic and
social situation, you have to return to the constituent dialogue. This is basic
in a society.
the US, there are no coups. No, there presidents have to be ready in case in
any moment they are killed. Here, there are coups. And in these countries in
Latin America there have been 170 coups. And the great majority of them were
sponsored by the US.
what do you do when the pact is broken? You start over with a constituent
AP: When you were
facing the coup, Maduro was the Foreign Minister of Venezuela and you worked
very closely with him at that time. What did you think about him, what was your
impression of Nicolas Maduro, and what do you think about what’s happening now
MZ: Two things:
One, Chávez did not seek me out. Chávez was never going to look for a far-right
country like Honduras, almost totally governed by the US. And now more than ever.
And me, a president who arrived with the centre-right. Chávez would never have
sought me out.
reached out to Chávez. I have to clarify that. Chávez never had an interest in
Honduras. This is an invention of right-wing activists in the US, like Otto Reich,
Robert Carmona, and Roger Noriega. I had to convince him [Chávez] to come here
to help us, with oil, with the ALBA alliance, with Petrocaribe.
Nicolás Maduro, yes he is a socialist from birth. He is a worker, from the
working class, from the class that is exploited by capital, from the class that
sells its labour force, and that is denied the rights that capitalists enjoy.
He is a socialist, like Chávez.
moreover, the Bolivarian Revolution, that was initiated by Chávez, with his
socialist convictions, was inherited by Nicolás [Maduro]. And he has led with a
great capacity, sensibility, and conscience.
don’t want you to recognize it, but Nicolás [Maduro] is a Latin American leader
of great international stature.
AP: We’re 10
years since the coup, since then, one by one other progressive governments have
been picked off and changed back into pawns of the United States. What gives
you hope that one day we will see progressive governments return to power in
MZ: No empire is
eternal. With the exception of God eternal. Since the end of World War II, the
US has ruled over much of the world. But it has serious contradictions. It is a
country with high levels of poverty. There are serious internal contradictions.
sometime soon, the North American ruling class will learn that to survive in
the world, it will have to reduce military spending, to give medicine,
healthcare, education and a good quality of life to its people. Someday they
are going to understand that being the soldiers of the world, that being the
police of the world, does not bring them as many benefits as they think.
one day they are going to understand that it is better to have democratic
countries than military dictatorships. When they come around, let’s hope it’s
not too late.
world is going to applaud, and meanwhile they continue giving fascist and
imperialist orders installing dictators in our countries, setting up
multinational corporations that exploit our rivers, our seas, our forests, our
lands, and our working class. Then they will be pointed at and called practices
that do not suit our countries.
don’t have anything against the North American people. Nor do I have anything
against the North American society. I’m an admirer of Lincoln, Kennedy,
Jefferson, Washington, of what the US had signified. But I condemn its
imperialist practices toward small countries like ours.
of strengthening democracies, it strengthens military dictatorships. And that
impoverishes our nation, and immigrants move there. And when immigrants move
there, they start to complain.
Interviewees: Council of Women of the West of Nicaragua (CMO) Interviewer: Martin Mowforth Location: the office of the CMO, Chinandega, Nicaragua Date: Friday September 11th 2015 Theme: Drought in Nicaragua Key Words:Nicaragua; drought; monocultivation; small-scale farmers
Contextual background of the interview with members of the CMO (Interview follows)
Taken from Nicaragua News (29 September 2015) under the heading ‘Continuing drought is punctuated by heavy rains and flooding’.
On September 28, government spokeswoman Rosario Murillo reported that 284 families had been affected by the heavy rains that fell over the weekend in the Departments of Madriz, Nueva Segovia, Matagalpa, and Managua. She said that in Managua, four houses were seriously damaged, six others were at risk of collapse and 280 others had been affected in some ways. On Sept. 25, three little girls drowned in a river that overflowed its banks and carried away the pickup truck in which they were riding. On Sept. 24, two people in Chinandega were killed by lightening during a fierce thunder storm which also caused storm sewers to overflow and houses to flood.
At the same time, concern grew about the regions of the country with insufficient rainfall, especially the area known as the Dry Corridor. Government spokeswoman Rosario Murillo said on Sept. 23 that the government in September had distributed more than 30,000 food packets to homes in the region and on Oct. 5 would begin another month’s distribution. Meanwhile, Minister of Industry and Commerce Orlando Solórzano said that the Ministry was considering importing several tons of corn to avoid scarcity and speculation given the loss of a part of the first harvest. He authorized the importation of onions and carrots to satisfy domestic consumption.
Fr. Uriel Vallejos, director of Caritas Nicaragua, asked the government to declare an emergency in the municipalities of the Dry Corridor. He said, “We’re not asking for it for the whole country because it’s a sector of Nicaragua that is suffering so much in this drought.” He added that the drought is affecting 10,000 families or 60,000 people. Vallejos stated that the food that the government is distributing does not reach everyone and he said that he is preparing a letter to President Daniel Ortega in which he notes that people in the drought zone are losing their harvests and having to sell all their animals in order to survive.
Alvaro Fiallos, president of the National Union of Farmers and Ranchers (UNAG), said that in the humid zone of the country farmers have planted for the second harvest of corn and beans but “where it hasn’t rained they haven’t planted for the second harvest and if it doesn’t rain they can’t plant.” Michael Healy of the Union of Agricultural Producers of Nicaragua (UPANIC) said that this week farmers would be meeting with the government to agree on what measures to take. He said that UPANIC was proposing projects in irrigation, water storage, reforestation and biotechnology. He noted that due to the drought harvests of sugar cane and peanuts, both export crops, were down by 20%.
(El Nuevo Diario, Sept. 24, 27, 28; Informe Pastrán, Sept. 23; La Prensa, Sept. 26)
Martin Mowforth (MM): So, a short interview with the members of the CMO, September (11) 2015 focussing specifically on the immediate effects of the drought which is hitting this zone [The departments of León and Chinandega.]. Can you give me your names first, please?
Marina Serrano (MS): Good day, my name is Marina Serrano Tercero. I am a member of the Council of Women of the West of Nicaragua. We would like to tell you that we thank you; in truth, you have been the first that is, to find out about the situation of the drought that we are going through here in the West.
Well, we sow during two periods in the West: that is the first and the latter. That is to say that the drought has affected us throughout, in all directions. Because with the livestock, without rain there is no pasture, true? It dries and we even have limits with the milk, the curd, which is the staple food. And the corn, the beans, we also can’t harvest, we lose them. We have already lost the first (harvest) and we had the hope that as we went through the latter we might find a bit of a solution. However, we are aggrieved because I think as we continue, we aren’t going to get a second (harvest). So, this is something quite worrying, right? This is what we ask, as much to the government as to fellow citizens, that in some way they are able to help us, right? To be able, at least, to support our children. Because they are the ones most affected, the children. And us, the women, right? Because it is, practically the drought which has left us drinking the dryness, as we say in Nicaragua.
MM: Yes, Can you repeat something, the effect of monoculture, of monocultivation? Can you give me your name first, please?
Maria Jose Urbina (MJU): Good day, my name is Maria Jose Urbina, I am from Leon, and in truth one of the consequences that we are living through nowadays is the drought which we have – its effects are really traumatic; with the large expanses which we have as a result of the growth of monoculture here in León and Chinandega; and the large amount that they are sowing. Why? Because many of the small producers don’t own land to be able to work. So it’s easier to rent the land, or sell. So in this way this has helped monoculture to expand. The same as the peanut – the peanut, in spite of the fact that it is a product, it is a product for export, it has always been one of the biggest monoculture crops that we have had. However, this is also seen to be affected by the change of the drought. And all of these monoculture products have made our soil more exhausted. In León they plough large Tolibañeras [areas?], depending on the weather, because we don’t have, the means of how to [her voice fades] to give proper maintenance to what is our environment and agriculture. One of the biggest problems of the drought is that we cannot produce or sow the first crop; now we are in the period of the next season. And right now we are at that period and we cannot sow because we have the drought; it isn’t raining enough. We’ve not been able to sow and what little rain rain has fallen well we haven’t been able to do anything, for small-scale production of the small producers. Also, one of the biggest problems of monoculture is the drought of water – excuse me – the water, the water table of León and Chinandega, [inaudible] have been seen to be affected. Why? Because to irrigate the sugar cane they use huge irrigation systems which has ramifications for the water table. And this makes our water table dry out; we have dry wells, we don’t have rivers, the rivers are dry. So this is one of the great effects that we experience.
The large producers and businesses are growing, the small and medium-sized producers are disappearing every day because of the lack of natural resources and finance which we don’t have for production.
MM: I thank you, a perfect explanation, many thanks.
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A voice that’s not easy to hear well
MM: Can you give me your name please?
Victoria Vidal de Suazo (VVS): My name is Victoria Vidal de Suazo, I belong to the CMO group, and I represent the cooperative within production, the theme of production. [The voice goes and is inaudible.]
Today the current problem is the drought that still affects us. With regard to its growth and value, the value of the shrimp, which is under much stress, is losing worth. I can tell you … [the voice goes and is inaudible.] and its growth falls. And no, it’s profitable, it is more costly. And this is a very hard cost.
Voice of another woman: And the harvest is also falling.
VVS: The harvest falls, it is a result of more risk [a lot of static noise – inaudible voice]. All of the parameters that it should have for us to get a product, but a product which is going to be satisfactory, I can say, for our business that we have …. [inaudible].
Entrevistados: Consejo Mujeres del Occidente (CMO) Entrevistadores: Martin Mowforth Lugar: Oficina del CMO, Chinandega, Nicaragua Fecha: Viernes 11 de setiembre, 2015 Tema: Monocultivación Palabras claves: Nicaragua; sequía; monocultivación; cultivación campesina Notes:
Antecedentes contextuales de la entrevista a las miembras del CMO
Extraído de Nicaragua News (29 setiembre 2015) abajo el título ‘Sequía continua es interrumpido por lluvias fuertes e inundaciones’
El 28 setiembre, la portavoz gubernamental Rosario Murillo anunció que fueron afectado 284 familias por las lluvias fuertes que se cayeron durante el fin de semana en los departamentos de Madriz, Nueva Segovia, Matagalpa y Managua. Dijo que en Managua, cuatro casas fueron dañadas gravemente, seis otras están a riesgo de colapso y 280 otras fueron afectado en unas maneras. El 25 setiembre, tres pequeñas muchachas se ahogaron en un río que se desbordó sus orillas y se llevó el camión en el cual ellas viajaban. El 24 setiembre, dos personas en Chinandega se fallecieron como resultado de relámpago durante una tormenta feroz que también causó el desagüe de alcantarillas y la inundación de casas.
Al mismo período, creció la preocupación sobre las regiones del país sin lluvia suficiente, especialmente la zona conocida como el Corredor Seco. El 23 setiembre, portavoz gubernamental Rosario Murillo dijo que en setiembre el gobierno había distribuido más que 30,000 paquetes de alimentación a los hogares en la región y el 5 de octubre iba a iniciar una distribución más para otro mes. Mientras tanto, el Ministro de Industria y Comercio, Orlando Solórzano dijo que, dado la perdida de una parte de la primera cosecha, considera el Ministerio la importación de numerosas toneladas de maíz para evitar la escasez y la especulación. Él autorizó la importación de cebollas y zanahorias para satisfacer el consumo doméstico.
Padre Uriel Vallejos, director de Caritas Nicaragua, pidió al gobierno la declaración de una emergencia en las municipalidades del Corredor Seco. Dijo, “No lo pedimos para todo el país porque es solamente una zona de Nicaragua que sufre mucho a consecuencia de esta sequía.” Añadió que la sequía afecta a 10,000 familias o 60,000 personas. Afirmó Vallejos que la alimentación distribuido por el gobierno no llega a todos, y que él está elaborando una carta al Presidente Ortega en la cual él observa que la gente en la zona de sequía están perdiendo sus cosechas y tienen que vender todos sus animales para sobrevivir.
Álvaro Fiallos, Presidente de la Unión Nacional de Agricultores y Ganaderos de Nicaragua (UNAG), dijo que en la zona húmeda del país los granjeros, rancheros y finqueros ya han sembrado para la segunda cosecha de maíz y frijoles, pero “donde no ha llovido ellos no han sembrado para la segunda cosecha y si no va a llover, no pueden sembrar.” Michael Healy de la Unión de Productores y Agropecuarios de Nicaragua (UPANIC) dijo que esta semana los rancheros se reunirían con el gobierno para ponerse de acuerdo con las medidas necesarias. Dijo él que UPANIC propone proyectos de riego, abastecimiento de agua, reforestación y biotecnología. Notó que redujeron por 20% las cosechas de caña de azúcar y maní (los dos cultivos de exportación) a causa de la sequía.
(El Nuevo Diario, Sept. 24, 27, 28; Informe Pastrán, Sept. 23; La Prensa, Sept. 26)
Martin Mowforth (MM): Bueno, entonces, una pequeña entrevista con las integrantes del CMO, Septiembre del 2015 sobre especialmente los efectos inmediatos de la sequía que está golpeando esta zona [Los departamentos de León y Chinandega.]. Pueden darme sus nombres primero, por favor?
Marina Serrano (MS): Buenos días, mi nombre es Marina Serrano Tercero. Soy miembro del Consejo de Mujeres de Occidente. Queríamos decirle de que le agradecemos, verdad de que usted haya sido el primero para saber sobre la situación de la sequía que estamos atravesando aquí en Occidente.
Bueno, nosotras sembramos en dos períodos aquí en Occidente: que es él de primera y postrera. Y es decir que la sequía nos ha afectado por toda, por todos los rumbos. Porque si en la ganadería, sino llueve el pasto, no(?), se seca y tampoco hasta tenemos limitaciones con la leche, la cuajadas, lo que es el alimento. Y el maíz, los frijoles tampoco los podemos cosechar, los perdimos. Ya perdimos de primera y teníamos la esperanza que nos íbamos a la postrera nos iba pues a solucionar un poco. Pero estamos afligidos porque creo que no, así como vamos no vamos a tener ni postrera.
Entonces, es algo preocupante, verdad? Este nosotros pedimos, tanto al Gobierno, como a hermanos, que en una manera nos pueden ayudar verdad? Para poder siquiera, el sostén de nuestros hijos. Porque ellos son los mayores afectados, los niños. Y nosotras las mujeres, verdad? Porque es prácticamente la sequía nos ha dejado bebiendo en la mera sequedad, que como decimos los Nicaragüenses.
MM: Sí. Puede repetir algo sobre el efecto del monocultivo? De la mono-cultivación. Podría decir su nombre primero, por favor?
Maria José Urbina (MJU): Buenos días, mi nombre es Maria José Urbina. Soy de León, y realmente una de las consecuencias que estamos viviendo hoy en día, de acuerdo a la sequía que tenemos, son efectos realmente traumáticos; con las grandes extensiones que tenemos de expansión del monocultivo aquí en León y en Chinandega; en la gran cantidad que se está sembrando. Porque? Porque muchos de los pequeños y pequeñas productoras no tienen para producir la tierra. Entonces es más fácil alquilar el terreno o vender. Entonces, de esa manera también este se ayuda a expandir al monocultivo. Igual que el maní – el maní, a pesar de que es un producto, es un producto de exportación, ha sido siempre uno de los grandes monocultivos que hemos tenido. Este, sin embargo también se están viendo afectados por el cambio de la sequía. Y todas estas producciones del monocultivo han hecho que nuestro suelo este mas desgastado. En León se aran grandes Tolibañeras, de acuerdo con el tiempo, porque no tenemos, este, medios de cómo, de [la voz se va] dar el mantenimiento adecuado a lo que es nuestro medioambiente y la agricultura. Uno de los grandes problemas de la sequía es que no podemos producir o sembrar en primero, ahora estamos en temporada postrera. Y ahorita estamos en la fecha y tampoco se pudo sembrar porque tenemos la sequía, no está lloviendo lo suficiente. No hemos podido sembrar y lo poco que ha llovido pues no ha permitido hacer nada absolutamente, para las producciones pequeñas, de los pequeños productores. También uno de los grandes problemas de los monocultivos es la sequía del agua, perdón, el agua, el manto acuífero de Leon y Chinandega, [inaudible] se han visto afectados. Porque? Porque para regar la caña se utilizan las grandes extensiones de sistema riego que son ramificados por parte del manto. Y eso hace que nuestro manto acuífero se seque, tenemos pozos secos, no tenemos ríos, los ríos están secos. Entonces también eso es una de las grandes afectaciones que tenemos.
Crecen los grandes productores y empresarios, los pequeños y los medianos los productores cada día vamos desvaneciéndonos más por la falta de los recursos naturales y por los financiamientos que no tenemos para la producción.
MM: Se lo agradezco, una explicación perfecta, muchísimas gracias.
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Una voz que no se oye bien
MM: Y puede darme su nombre por favor?
Victoria Vidal de Suazo (VVS): Mi nombre es Victoria Vidal de Suazo, pertenezco al grupo del CMO, y represento a la cooperativa dentro de producción, el tema de producción. [La voz se va y es inaudible].
Hoy actualmente en lo que es el problema, lo que es la sequía que nos sigue afectando. En cuanto su crecimiento y su valor de, su valor del camarón, de que él va estresándose, va faltándole más energía, puedo decirle …. [la voz se va y es inaudible] y que su crecimiento baja. Y no es rentable por se lleva más, como diciendo, mas costo. Y es un costo más fuerte.
Otra voz de mujer: Y la cosecha también baja.
VVS: La cosecha baja, es un resultado del riesgo más [mucho ruido estático, voz inaudible]. Todos los parámetros que debe tener él y vamos a sacar un producto, pero un producto que va a ser satisfactorio, puedo decir, para nuestro negocio que tenemos [inaudible].
2016 has witnessed an increase in fatal attacks on human rights defenders in Guatemala. From January 1st to October 31st, eleven human rights defenders were killed and since October 31st, the killings have escalated, and by November 18th the total number of defenders killed came to 16. (The total for 2015 was 13.)
On 17th March, Mario Roberto Salazar Barahona (shown left), director of Radio Estéreo Azúcar, was killed in Asunción Mita (department of Jutiapa), as he waited in his car for change after buying a coconut at the roadside. Gunmen pulled up beside him on a motorcycle and opened fire.
On 8th April, Winston Leonardo Túnchez Cano (shown left), a broadcaster on Radio La Jefa, was shot and killed by men on a motorcycle while he was shopping for groceries in Escuintla.
On 30th April, journalist Diego Salomón Esteban Gaspar (shown left, 22 years old and a leading reporter on Radio Sembrador, was killed by three men who intercepted him on his motorcycle in the village of Efrata (department of Quiché). The director of the radio station had been receiving threats since 2015.
On 7th June, journalist Víctor Hugo Valdéz Cardona (shown left) was shot and killed in the streets of Chiquimula by two individuals on a motorcycle. Víctor was the director of Chiquimula de Visión, a cultural television programme that had been showing for more than 27 years.
On 25th June, journalist and radio reporter Álvaro Alfredo Aceituno López (shown left) was shot by unidentified assailants on the street where the Radio Ilusión station is located in the city of Coatepeque. He was director of the station and the host of a programme titled ‘Coatepeque Happenings’.
A month after Álvaro’s murder, his daughter, Lindaura Aceituno, was shot and killed by men on a motorcycle as she was driving her daughter to school. After the first shooting, one of the men got off the motorcycle and approached and shot her again to ensure she was dead.
On 6th November, journalist Hamilton Hernández and his wife, Ermelinda González Lucas (shown left), were assassinated in Coatepeque while returning home after covering an event. Hamilton was a journalist for the cable station, Punto Rojo. The two had been married for only a few months.
A variety of sources have been used in the compilation of the lists above. These include: Prensa Libre, Aquitodito, Cerigua, Radio La Franja, Front Line Defenders, Committee to Protect Journalists, NISGUA, UNESCO, Reporteros Sin Fronteras, Guatemala Human Rights Commission/USA (GHRC).
The GHRC’s ‘Preliminary 2016 Human Rights Review’ has been particularly helpful and this was the work of Imogene Caird and Pat Davis, to whom I am especially grateful. The GHRC’s website is: www.ghrc-usa.org/